Global Remove promo wave/Introduce demotion wave

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by SniffMyToes, Aug 11, 2020.

  1. rent
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    rent pigeon #1 Moderator YouTuber Premium

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    Alright fella, you're looking at this from a completely different perspective. You can't just call someone a simp because they compliment a mod or anyone in fact (plus me and sabrina are dating but that doesn't mean I'm biased in any way so don't call me out on that because I know you will) I've been called a simp plenty of times because of countless reasons and at this point you're just looking at ways to humiliate people especially the staff team, which seems to be a direct hit at me in your reply. I was kind of referring to simping not being relevant at all but you went ahead and cherry picked me out which I don't appreciate. I can't speak for other staff members but I definitely do not have an ego, you're acting like you know the ins and outs when you really don't. You're talking about how we as staff take things too seriously when the reason for some inactivity is because we have lives so you're just chatting nonsense at this point. Like Sando said, leave this thread on topic and making other threads completely targeting staff and simps is just unnecessary. I suggest after this reply we all stay on topic which is a whole new system for promotion waves etc, not simps, egos and any other irrelevant topics.

    ALSO - I do agree with Matt that promo waves do need to happen more consistently. okay bye :)
     
  2. SniffMyToes
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    SniffMyToes Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn’t be able to do an off-topic as they would close the thread and ban me for staff disrespect. Mashing it into a suggestion works?


    Anyways, is this better?
     
  3. Tonya
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    Tonya Experienced Member

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    While I support the main concept being said here, it just seems too late in the game to change the system. Both the applicants and the staff seem comfortable with the current promotion system, hence changing it could create confusion.

    I actually find that the simping point is somewhat on-topic with what is being said. In addition to the lack of moderator promotions going on these days, those that are staff or those that have massive support for their application are due to some simping from the community and due to the applicants simping for some upper-staff. This, of course, leads to a bias in deciding who becomes staff next. This biasedness shows corruption and unfairness. Either way, the goal here is to limit unfairness in order to promote those who are truly worthy of the position. Whether that is to address the simping issue or the issues with the promotion wave, both need addressing in order to fix the biasedness to create a cleaner and more fair way of promoting.

    Overall, I support a revamp of the system in the hopes of getting a constant flow of fresh, active, and motivated staff to combat the inactiveness of the staff team.
     
  4. Toheedprff786
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    Toheedprff786 Experienced Member

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    good job not taking the most relevant post within this month serious. what an amazing staff! congratulations u should be promoted!


    so demoting is what should happen if they dont resign themself. also just said that ex-mods get priority quite biased and unfair.i do agree tho that they should be given some sort of priority but not to the extent that they are almost guaranteed to be accepted

    u should already belong as the staff should be 'friendly and kind' and should know u by now but ur implying that they arent. banter in getting the biggest ban log eh? so u compete in banning people and want people to break the rules so u can win a competition nice to know. but this is the type of 'motivation' that the staff team clearly need as being a mod isnt fully what they want.

    hype about promotions will always exist as the simps will be able to become the simped so no need to worry about that.people constantly leave because maybe they didnt want to be the simped and they had to change completely as a person.

    simply damage to all ur egos all true statements that u just couldnt handle.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2020
  5. sabrina
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    sabrina pigeon #2 Moderator Premium

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    i wasn't gonna reply to this thread but since i got name-dropped..

    Disclaimer: I am not nor have ever been a mod, I am not entirely sure how the process works, this is just my personal opinion based on my own experience on the server.

    i can't help but notice that most people who have supported this thread are applicants / ex applicants. To me, this seems like you were impatient to be promoted and so have either given up or are hoping for this to go through so you can get promoted quicker. neither option looks good in the eyes of people taking on new staff members, so this thread isn't doing applicants any favours.


    as for this:

    I see where you're coming from with people who may "suck up" to mods in order to speed up the application process, but as you have seen this doesn't seem to be working. Promotions are still coming in waves, and are based on activity and dedication rather than who "simps" for mods. You can clearly differentiate the applicants who are dedicated and committed to becoming mod, making reports daily, being active all the time, from those who are less active. Maybe so, these applicants do talk to mods more, but they're also trying to become an active part of the community and in doing so becoming friendly with all players, not just the staff team.

    In my honest opinion, the application & promotion process is in no way shape or form perfect. Far from it in fact. But is anything perfect? I agree, it does need some sort of reformation, but coming from applicants / ex-applicants points of view whom the system has "failed", it honestly seems like you're biased. I'm sure you all would drop the matter if you were promoted. Or maybe you won't, you never know. Just like, even after months of applying and being active on the server, the staff don't know how applicants will react when given the job. The process is lengthy to weed out anyone who may get impatient with the system, and therefore who aren't 100% committed to being mod. The system is hardly perfect, but you can't deny that it works to a certain extent.

    As for the suggested "bias" towards ex staff members when reapplying, I can see your point of view, but you must remember that they have had this job before and so the team know they are capable, have the qualifications and the traits necessary to be a moderator. However, this shouldn't put them on top of first-time applicants. I think the reason that the process is so lengthy is to ensure that first-time applicants have the same amount of dedication as ex-staff members have had towards the job in the past, therefore placing everyone on a level playing field.

    I'm not saying i completely disagree with the original suggestion made on this thread. I agree, the system does need reform. But seeing as this isn't a legitimate job position for a real-life job, I think the staff team do a pretty good job finding good, dedicated applicants to volunteer on a minecraft server. they can't ask for references, credentials or background checks unlike with a real-life career, so they work with what they can; reading applications, monitoring player activity in-game, and viewing how well a player spots hacks/rule breakers by their reports. They look for key qualities a moderator needs in applicants and work from there.

    I just think people are forgetting this is an unpaid position on a minecraft server.

    The staff are not paid, they do this out of their own free time, some have very busy lives outside of MV, and they're doing the best they can with what information they're provided. They need to ensure that the staff that are promoted are safe and will do a good job. You may not always agree with their decisions, and the system is far from perfect, but you can't deny that they're trying to do what's best for the server.

    Staff are demoted when they are inactive or go against the rules of the server, this is to ensure that only active and trustworthy staff stay on the team. Additionally, staff are free to resign whenever they see fit, some stay for years, some stay for months. Either way, they earned the position and have a right to stay on the team as long as they abide by the guidelines of the position. A demotion wave just doesn't make sense to me, why change staff if they're already doing a good job, and risk adding new members who the team who A) don't know the ropes of being a mod and B) may not be completely trustworthy?

    I think that promotion waves should occur based on how active the server is (we don't want more staff members than players) and how many staff may have resigned/been demoted since the last wave. Having more and more promo waves without losing staff from the team is not sensible, but neither is demoting staff just for the sake of adding new ones.

    Again, I'd like to reiterate that i'm just a player, i have never been staff and i'm not on the staff team, I just thought I would give my opinion seeing as i've been dragged into this.

    I'm going with neutral. the process may need reformation, but not like this.
     
  6. SniffMyToes
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    SniffMyToes Well-Known Member

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    I already attached screenshots of staff who have posted on the forums like <10 times in the past 3 months. This simply isn’t true.

    What? Another double standard it seems. You say that mods don’t have infinite free time and that any activity helps, but the applicants must remain 100% committed? If any amount of involvement helps, I see no reason that the applicants must prove themselves worthy of being committed or extremely active.

    I’m a 2 time ex-staff. I only post this cause I know the system is jank. I’m not going to apply again, so why would I have bias on this system changing?

    Please don’t.
     
  7. Qwiby
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    Qwiby Experienced Member Premium

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    I like this point
    I would also like to point out though that applicants are in the same boat really.
     
  8. Robo
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    Robo Experienced Member

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    This is exactly why I said it was cringe for mods to act so serious. We're talking about a server that is so small at this point that only 3 gamemodes are even in need of moderation. A lot of them act as if they're talking down on the community a lot of the time.

    As for mentioning you specifically, I'm sorry, I just needed a quick example of people who are close with the mods which would make the mods "favor" them when the time came.
     
  9. sabrina
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    sabrina pigeon #2 Moderator Premium

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    Forgive me if i'm wrong but isn't the point of the application period to prove your worth? Staff members are a team, they share the load of replying to reports, banning and muting players etc. Applicants need to show their commitment so yes, they do need to put in more effort in my opinion, to stand out from other applicants and to prove their dedication.

    didn't you reapply recently and delete your thread O_o
    I'm sure you had your reasons for this, just pointing it out, most applicants have deleted their threads, I can't help but notice the correlation between these closed threads and the upset over the application process.

    I do agree that there are some applicants that tend to suck up to mods thinking it will get them ahead in the process, but I haven't seen evidence of it actually helping their case. Furthermore, I think that bias is discussed when choosing new moderators, and staff are careful not to pick people they "like" in favour of those who will do a good job.
     
  10. Sando3
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    Sando3 Tom Holland Head Moderator Discord Team Leader Premium

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    It was a joke referring to me being the one wanting an end to inactivity, constantly ranting about abuse and inactivity, and me reporting staff members multiple times a month. If I have to spell it out for you: the joke is that it's not easy to get a staff member demoted.
    [​IMG]

    Why are people constantly bringing up that ex staff are guaranteed to get staff again? Being an ex staff member can be both an advantage and disadvantage depending on how you did. If you did good, we know they're trustworthy, knowledgable and friendly. Random is a good example. How many ex staff can't you name that you can't say the same about? I wouldn't mind supporting Purge, but whenever he makes an application he gets a spam of no supports by the staff members who moderated with him and he closes it. The only "unfairness" here is that good ex mods have proven stuff that new applicants haven't had the chance to prove. They both however have to prove that they're active and dedicated towards mineverse in present time. This takes more than a week or two.

    Also: can we stop saying that ex mods take up spots that new mods could've got? There is no limit to how many we promote. We've done promos with 6 people, but last time it was 3. Why was it 3 and not more? It's not because the limit was reached. Neither is there a hard limit on how many staff members we can have. We don't have to remove staff members to "have space" for new ones. The issue with inactive staff is that it looks bad on the server and demotivates those actually putting in effort to moderating.


    Again, my opinion is the same: I still think promoting in waves has the most benefits, but that they should be more frequent. Possibly introduce a rule like a promo having to be within 3 months of the last promo. (e.g. July 20th)
     
  11. gabby
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    gabby Boss Member

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    No support gotta simp for the mods LMAO
    but honestly the current system works fine altho promos could definitely be more frequent
     
  12. Atom
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    Atom Well-Known Member

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    Basically I think what everyones saying is that they want promos to be more often.
     
  13. kinsey_kid
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    kinsey_kid Developer Developer Premium

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    We've discussed this within the upper ranks of the staff team before and although i'm for it, the conclusion we came up with was no, this wouldn't be implemented.


    Yes Ideally we would promote more often, the problem with that is either we are busy or we don't think the applicants are quite ready yet. As for doing away with promotion waves and just promoting ad hoc, just remember that to promote someone Quert, Janice, the rest of the involved staff and myself all need to devote lots of our time to make sure the new member is welcomed.

    Also in regards to the activity of upper staff, this isn't a job, we don't get paid, we do the best we can with the spare time we've got.
     
  14. Robo
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    Robo Experienced Member

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    Thanks for the reply and while yes they may not be ready, they should have no perms but they will just be there to make reports and see if their personalities and methods are compatible with the staff team. The mods could basically manage them and they can report back to the higher ups. It makes sense that the high mods might not have spare time but for just normal moderators it shouldn't be too bad to manage some trial mods. But yeah I also I understand the other reasons you gave and a lot of thought must be put into it, I was just saying that there's no harm in having trial mods because nothing is really lost if they aren't good for the staff team.
     
  15. Toheedprff786
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    Toheedprff786 Experienced Member

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    False - theres been many mods who can you can look at their positives/negatives and easily see that the negatives outweigh the positives by quite a lot. just because u've become 'friends' and dont want to demote them as you like them and are their friend doesnt make it hard unless ur biased

    at this rate over half the players will be staff. you dont need like 50 staff the way its going u'll have 50 staff. what you need is staff to be replaced. the server has like 200players max on the best day of the month and that number is declining rapidly. you only need like 10 staff, 20 if a lot have similar time zones.

    just admitted that some1 who sucks up to u has a higher chance of getting staff. ill put it in 1 word for you. bias. thats all it is. a player and a staff supporting their friend is completely different. a players opinion is worth less to the staff team cus they dont really care about them but a staff is 'trustworthy'. you cant see any applicant sucking up to a player because it doesnt affect their chance of getting mod but they do suck up to mods. why u may wonder, well its because then u can become their 'friend' and they will simply be 'nice' to you and you can 'vouche for their qualities' which is in other words as i said before bias.

    bias is a big issue its been happening so much recently too many simps. hardly any player would care about those messages because no1 sucks them off and therefore they dont have an inflated ego which is fragile and can be severely damaged by 1 fact. whats wrong with trashing on the staff team when its facts. have u seen any1 trashing on certain mods like death? no, because hes actually a good mod who isnt bias and doesnt abuse his powers. neither does he have simps or an inflated ego. its not that hard to get rid of ur simps or not have any to begin with, just dont be biased and players will see that and not take advantage of you. also thats all ur simps are - people who take advantage of you.
     
  16. WiiTarded
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    WiiTarded Experienced Member

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    ye support
     
  17. DeathAuras
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    DeathAuras Moderator Moderator

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    This is going to be my only response to this thread <3. Some people who I shall not name clearly have a vendetta against some staff members which you can clearly see in this thread probably because they were banned or muted by that staff member, take this with a pinch of salt.
     
  18. boba
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    boba Established Member

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    Support to the promotion wave being removed. Yes I’m aware of the fact I don’t play here nor do I have any experience of Mineverse but looking and judging this thread, the thread creator made some valid points on why it should be removed.

    The sound of a promotion wave doesn’t make a lot of sense, it can be efficient but I personally think just promote the person you think is worthy for moderator at the time you think it’s right, why are you waiting for “a wave”? Simply, promote at the right time and don’t wait for a wave so you can promote many people at the same time. Sounds kind of weird if you think about it, and unfair for those who’ve applied for months and a person who’s applied for 2 weeks to be promoted at the same time.

    This is my opinion and I hope I don’t get disrespected for it as I won’t be disrespecting your opinion. Thanks :)
     
  19. Bossgamer
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    Bossgamer Active Member

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    I can see both points. I think something that may be overlooked when discussing the removal of what people call "promo waves" would be that it would bring more stress to the higher staff on teaching the new staff different commands, how to deal with rulebreakers, all the in-depth stuff etc etc. If one person gets promoted and then someone else two weeks later, the whole process has to be done twice rather an as a collective. More frequent promotion waves are something that can better the issue rather than players getting promoted left right and centre, as suggested previously by others.

    As for "demotion waves", as long as there's staff that don't completely disappear without a trace or just blatantly don't do their job, I don't see a need for this. Staff should get reviewed regularly anyway imo.
     
  20. Mega_
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    Mega_ Well-Known Member

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    No support. Promotion waves usually occur when the owners/head staff feel they need new staff. What is the issue exactly? The only issue I see with the system is that they don't occur often enough. The staff don't wait until there is 3-4 people they want to promote. Promotion waves occur when they feel they need new staff.
     

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